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tv   [untitled]    April 25, 2012 10:00pm-10:30pm EDT

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welcome to the loner show we'll get the real headlines with none of the mersey coming live in washington d.c. now tonight will be joined by gary johnson former governor of new mexico and libertarian candidate for president we're going to speak about arizona's immigration law racial religious ethnic profiling here in the u.s. austerity and the libertarian convention and then student loan debt is finally becoming a mainstream news topic but aside from stopping the rise in interest rates are there any real solutions being proposed out there and despairing of the young turks is going to join us and details of the agreement between the u.s. and afghanistan for the next ten years are leaking out but is this really just a policy to make sure that we have access to pakistan while all of that and more fear tonight including a dose of happy hour but first let's take
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a look at the mainstream media has decided to miss. all right so today was the big day at the supreme court for arizona's immigration law as b ten seventy and oral arguments were heard in the case that pit the federal government against the state. the supreme court today taken on the highly political issue of immigration specifically arizona's tough law s.b. ten seventy they're hearing both sides of the debate on key pieces of arizona's immigration law that will ultimately decide of states of the power to enforce their own laws to arrest illegals the arizona law conflicts with federal immigration policy at issue is whether states have the authority to step in to enforce immigration matters or whether that's the role of the federal government those who oppose the law say that it is the case of states going too far that the feds basically preempt this is their area this is their authority regulate immigration
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the law is going to cause significant civil rights problems throughout arizona if he uses the word relaxed to describe the federal government's unfortunate policy on immigration and he says arizona has decided who has to step into the breach be obama administration will argue that states have a limited role to play folks in arizona say it's an absolute necessity in their opinion the federal government has not done its job in enforcing immigration laws. now the supreme court is going to rule on this case until sometime in june so we have a ways until we find out the results of today's oral arguments but just as lana kagan has also rick elena kagan has also recused herself so there's a chance that there will be a forty four tie in the votes and in that case the lower court's ruling will stand and in our interview tonight with gary johnson will be discussing what was gleaned from today's arguments which direction it seems like the court might be headed that's coming up but i can tell you one thing that's for sure it was more about the legal argument states versus the federal government than about the discussion of
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civil liberties the possibility of racial profiling and even that is again just part of the puzzle of how we approach the issue of immigration in america today especially from the more conservative point of view there is this attempt at detachment and making this not a human issue which it is these are people's livelihoods their families that we're talking about it's not just about building a fence and deporting people so this is where a new report from the pew. hispanic center comes into play and despite all the coverage of the supreme court hearing in arizona's case all the conversations about immigration this week this report isn't getting any attention from the mainstream media and although obviously all immigrants do not come from mexico this report does focus on the country individually and the fact is that according to this research after four decades that brought twelve million current immigrants the net immigration flow from mexico to the u.s. has stopped and may have even reversed again why we have to realize that so much of this debate has to do now with new immigrants crossing the border per se but the people that are already here that live here they contribute to communities we have
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children in schools who have families here but why is immigration stopped is something that needs to be explored before you start offering solutions or legislation you have to look at the details in the reasons why now according to the report's findings this reverse trend started far before any of the immigration laws like arizona's were passed from two thousand and five to two thousand and ten net migration was actually zero one point four million mexicans went to the u.s. and one point four million mex and mexican immigrants and their kids moved from the u.s. to mexico now here are the factors of the report attributed to causing these things weekend u.s. job and housing construction markets and border enforcement a rise in deportations the growing dangers associated with illegal border crossings the long term decline in mexico's birth rates and changing economic conditions in mexico now you can make all of these statistics what you will there's a lot to be discussed but the point is that these things matter if we're going to
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talk about immigration reform on a federal level or attempts to deal with it on a state level these are just hyped up pundits politicians calling all immigrants drug dealers and smugglers to scare people into an opinion and this is actual analysis that has been done and that's how we should approach the debate and like i said the mainstream media they haven't even bothered touching on this report just another one. that they choose to miss. well the consensus after today's oral arguments of the supreme court over arizona's immigration law as the ten seventy was that the majority of the justices seem to be favoring arizona's arguments over the justice department's but arguments here like i said focus on the federal versus state power debate and they had little to do with the possibility of racial profiling in fact chief justice roberts told solicitor really that no part of your argument has to do with racial or ethnic
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profiling we did however hear some comparisons made by justice scalia between undocumented immigrants and bank robbers also asking really if he was quote objecting to harassing the people who have no business being here but the question is what about the people that are supposed to be here that just look a certain way is it just about the specific legal arguments here or do americans maybe care less about profiling these states or disgust with these gary johnson former two term governor of new mexico and current libertarian presidential candidate nice to have you back on the show to go and i thank you thank you so i what's your take of everything was going on today because in the past you have been critical of arizona's immigration law well i'm not critical of the fact that arizona should be making these decisions but i am critical of the decision and i think it is going to lead to racial profiling that it does and i will tell you having hotel interests in tempe arizona that ever since those laws been acted there's been less convention activity in tempe and this is not good this is just
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this is just crazy i think i think we should make it as easy as possible for somebody who wants to come into this country and work to get a work visa not a green card not citizenship but a work visa that would entail a background check and a social security card that a political taxes would get paid i'm advocating the fair tax. if we implement the fair tax taxes won't be an issue at all. whether you're illegal legal visitor u.s. citizen and you're not going to be able to avoid paying the one and only federal tax consumption tax do you think people can be illegal that's a term that's ok to use by illegal just not documented i think that any immigrant entering the united states will stand in line to get a work visa if the line is moving and the issue right now is you cannot get a work visa and come into the country and work so you know that if you get across the border even illegally crossing that you can still get a job you know i don't like the term illegal when it comes to workers from mexico
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we're getting the absolute cream of the crop when it comes to these workers they're an asset not a liability what about the fact you know some of these statistics that i just went through from the pew hispanic center the fact that so many mexican migrants are now going the opposite direction the economy i mean the fact that that our economy is not doing so well i mean this is a direct reflection on immigration i just think the more immigrants that we have the better the economy is doing and i think they actually work hand in hand with one another i think i've read recent studies where there's been a loss of u.s. jobs u.s. citizens losing their jobs because immigrants aren't. connecting the links if you will in our economy one of the things that we've seen too is in certain states like alabama georgia where they also passed restrictive immigration legislation a lot of the migrant workers and up leaving right and then there was nobody there
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were certain farms where there was nobody to pick certain features like and just like everyone and it would relieve if we warrant if we wanted to want to but as you know with so clearly in your view you think of the states should have the ability to do work on immigration on their own and this should be something that the federal government and only the federal government can handle but then you have arizona you have eight other states that have passed. legislation that's very similar to this that raises these issues while they ban racial profiling technically that it might actually happen so i mean is that does that raise a concern for you maybe the federal government could put it all across and i you know it's like i absolutely have friends that live on the border in arizona that have soap on their windows i'm an american citizen and have their papers and yet they're and the reason is they're hispanic they're not white look it's their state legislatures that have decided to pass this kind of law i would not have passed the law i would have vetoed legislation i think it is going to lead to racial profiling
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i think it's a bad thing that states take this and look and i think building a fence is just a crazy notion and if we want. politicians in washington want to decide to build a fence why don't we just build a pilot fence around washington d.c. and see how well that works think keep you in or out of work if you want to get in or out of work i don't think so now a lot of people to live right in virginia maryland too that come into work here in the city but you actually had some choice words for new york mayor michael bloomberg of this week when you were in new york city here in the past also had been critical of arizona's law because he was concerned that it might lead to racial profiling and then you take issue with the stop and frisk policies in new york tell us stop and frisk policies in new york seven hundred thousand new yorkers have been stopped in the last year and basically searched and we're not talking about getting on an airplane here we're talking about on the streets of new york and mayor bloomberg had. criticism for arizona's law said it was going to lead to
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racial profiling well i got to tell you in new york i think racial profiling is going on right now with regard to the whole stop and frisk isn't this why we fought wars when it comes to protecting our civil liberties will this is civil liberties out the window but so what's going on do we care less because we have emigration laws being passed like this we have law enforcement. not only practicing stop and frisk in new york city you also had this investigation from the a.p. the revealed that the n.y.p.d. was launching massive surveillance and monitoring the entire muslim community in the northeast solely for the fact that they were muslim i tell you what i mean i just think so much of it is fear driven that it's politicians pointing out that the root of all evil are illegal immigrants terrorists. bad health care drug users elect me and savior from all these ills and really to me that's where it all stems from dave a position on on cispa on the cyber intelligence act right now that trying to make
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its way through the white house actually said today that they would veto it if it stands as is well good there's nothing that the government needs to fix when it comes to the internet and there's always unintended consequence of anything and everything that the government does and in this case it would be shutting down arguably the real open source for information that we all have every single one of us want here they want to take advantage of that open source and then just share all of your private information with government agencies and not exactly tell you what it is that they're going to do with them the whole notion of civil liberties it's getting worse in this country it's not getting better and i would argue that's why we fought wars is to protect civil liberties and my dad didn't go over to normandy a deal to land behind the lines before d.-day for social security medicaid or medicare he was there to protect us from the in the incursion on our civil liberties liberty freedom that's what this country has always stood for and there
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needs to be a refocus on just how important it is unfortunately what's going to happen i mean it makes sense right on one hand in this upcoming election the economy is going to be the number one issue i think it's unfortunate civil liberties are going to be as big an issue but so that i have to ask you right because you. clearly one of the things you boast about are the balanced budgets that you've passed in the past but if we look out. it's going on in the u.k. right now we just found out that they have actually entered a second recession since the crash in two thousand and eight and so much of this a lot of people are pointing to their austerity policies that have passed that have been very aggressive you know there they were taking their medicine and i think i think the united states has a real opportunity here i mean let's spend less that it medicine isn't working it's making them more sick at least in terms with a lot more or sick to to allow the patient to survive long term i would argue that continuing to prop up the patient in this case continuing to spend borrow and spend forty three cents out of every dollar that we're currently spending is completely
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unsustainable and then we're going to kill the patient the united states is going to cease to be to exist as a as a government if we don't fix this so i would argue there's an opportunity here for the united states to lead and if you think there's not going to be a contraction will better a contraction than a collapse. but what if there would be a collapse because of more of this short term pain right because for those people to advocate for more government spending right now well i don't know that i want to be easing or something they would say that in the short term this is going to get us back to where we need to go deficits are a problem of the future that you can deal with later i would argue just the opposite that that we need to take on these problems we need to take them on now. what you're talking about is a collapse you know if a collapse occurs it's because of what has happened over the last several decades it's not what happens now the only thing that we can do to prevent this is to slash spending something that nobody wants to take on and yet it has to be taken on it
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has to be taken on when it comes to the title means yeah medicaid medicare being a military issue and telling us you know and telling the american public that when they're already upset that's what i'm going to do on my second recession here to try and be the libertarian nominee for president the notion that people care about two things i think they care about civil liberties and they care about doing that in the context of a balanced checkbook i think what i care about now everybody needs to be able to go to work to feed their family get that paycheck now i think probably more immediately than they do and that will ensure and some leadership to actually point out that if we don't deal with these problems now we're going to find ourselves without a country we're going to find ourselves with a dollar that doesn't buy anything at all all right i have to wrap it up but governor thanks so much for joining us tonight and i'm sure we'll you'll hear are people attending the libertarian convention next week you're going to hear a lot more of that philosophy thanks thank you. our time for a quick break want to come back it appears that leaking information about the cia to a journalist will land you in a jail cell while destroying evidence could just get you a book deal and
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a spare in getting back on the show to discuss the student loan debt crisis in america and alternatives that aren't being talked about. you know how sometimes you see a story and. seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm tom harvey welcome to the big picture.
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download the official location. called touch from the. life on the go. video on demand tease mine comes and says feeds now in the palm of your. question on the dot com. yesterday we did you about the latest pretrial hearings in the case of bradley manning now the defense argued yesterday at fort meade was that the entire case
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should be dismissed because of a flawed discovery process in which the prosecution didn't give up a whole lot of information now that information at hand were assessment reports written by the cia the pentagon the state department and possibly even other agencies now those so-called weak you leak task force or reports are expected to show the government privately admits that the leaks have not harmed national security what happened instead was that a mixed bag for the man defense team the army judge denise lindh yesterday ordered the prosecution to turn over those reports detailing the alleged damage of the leaked documents of cost to national security so that could help the manning team they argue that aiding the enemy that the charge being brought against him should be dropped as their client neither intended to nor actually did assist the enemy as no harm was done to national security and the prosecution today said that they're going to try to prove that manning knew al qaeda members visited we q leaks prior to his disclosure and if they can manage to get inside manning's head and do that and he could be found guilty even if the damage assessments don't reveal any harm
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but again just remember how ridiculous all of this is because you play something on the internet you can be charged with aiding the enemy newsflash al qaeda doesn't only read wiki leaks so any new story anything online any book out there like bob woodward's obama's wars which gives you an inside look could be classified in the same way then you get back to the details from today's hearing now because the reports are still classified lindh is going to determine behind closed doors if they must be given to the fence appropriate for a trial shrouded in secrecy right but even if when refuses to allow the defense access to these reports that decision to even ask for the documents might be seen as sort of a setback for mandy because that means that now a judge has seen the documents and that means that their arguments for getting the whole case dismissed because the document. haven't been shown to anybody fall flat and so today elaine ruled that the trial will proceed or remains to be seen whether or not she's actually going to allow the defense to take into account those reports
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which perhaps isn't really a shock right the obama administration's war on whistleblowers is so pervasive that it's almost become a cliche but i still managed to find absurd though is the inconsistency when certain national security officials for example shed light on government abuse by leaking to reporters people like john kiriakou they get charged with the most serious of crimes but how about when the exact opposite happens how about what a government official destroys evidence of government of abuse and obstruction of justice and then writes a book about it take the case of former cia head of clandestine services jose rodriguez in two thousand and five he destroyed videotapes showing the cia torturing two detainees that's evidence that a federal judge ordered the agency to turn over to want to know what happened to him while in two thousand and ten we had chris anders a.c.l.u. senior counsel on to discuss this story and explained the obama administration's looking forward policy in action there is no reason why there should have been a prosecution brought based on structure of these videotapes they were federal
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courts and multiple times told told the government the bush administration that they had to preserve all the records still the torture issue really means that the world will never have a full depiction of full understanding of what it was that the united states was a gauge in turkey torture there's the bun do have evidence that this was that these were decisions that were being made at the very highest levels of government the decisions being made the white house. that's right it could have potentially been crucial the building a case against former president bush or against jose rodriguez for that matter yet president obama despite all the talk of hope and change and stuff let him go free as a bird and that's out on now rodriguez is said to profit off of his misdeeds he will be releasing a book called hard measures and that's going to detail his involvement in. cia's torture program and the subsequent cover up so rodriguez brazenly admits to destroying the tapes even brags of the cia's torture program and his cover up saves
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lives but while he openly brags about his obstruction of justice the agency seems to have no problem with the book which brings us back to this whole inconsistency issue the agency does go after others who publish criticism of its torture program or resources for such material people like john kiriakou people like james risin they are treated as enemies of the state and bradley manning but the cia doesn't take exception to rodriguez's book because it makes obscene defense spending and unaccountable programs look necessary own also helps keep american voters paralyzed with fear whistleblowers on the other hand they do not threaten lives they merely threaten the doctrine of never ending war and the national security state. now talk about student loan debt it's definitely in the news this week that only has president obama on a tour trying to pander to young voters he's also very publicly talking about the need for congress to stop the increase on student loan interest rates that would take effect on july first that actually includes slow jamming it on jimmy fallon's
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show last night. now is not the time to make school more expensive for your. wrist. or is about to comb the precision of the united states. now that interest rates would double in july from three point four to six point eight percent and something even mitt romney is now gotten behind but you see today is also a day of action organized by the occupy student debt campaign and they claim that today is the day that student loan debt reaches the one trillion dollar mark so on twitter you've probably seen a lot of hashtags and say one day and this website also calls today a victory for wall street so finally seems like student loan debt is being discussed on a national stage but do we really hear any solutions joining me to discuss it as an experience co-host of the young turks and thanks so much for joining us tonight you
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and i i feel like you've just been in circles spoken about this issue so many times but look here it is not only occupied now it's on jimmy fallon's show now mitt romney and the president are talking about it and when has it finally reached that point where it's become a big mainstream issue. i think it's a mainstream issue but going back to the question that you asked about realistic solutions i don't think that real civil realistic solutions have been proposed yet and that's the real troubling aspect of this story student loan debt is still something that will follow students around for the rest of their lives they can't get rid of it through bankruptcy at the same time higher education continues to get . the funded and as a result these universities have no choice but to increase tuition thus students go out and they take out these loans and they are affected by it for virtually the rest of their lives you know you're talking about occupy colleges and i love their movement and i love what they're doing with their website occupy student debt dot
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com because one of the host their office also included the story of justice sotomayor and i didn't know this but because of the student loans that she has to take out for her education she wasn't able to take a clerkship and she had to work in order to pay off her loans and then work toward her career well that was then now the problem is even worse and a lot of students will take out let's say twenty thousand dollars of loans and because of the fact that they can't find jobs and they evolved on those loans and because of these high interest rates that student loan debt will go from twenty thousand to life thirty five thousand so it's a really big issue and there haven't really been any real solutions ok so we're going to try to keep the interest rate down federally subsidized loans but it's not really solving the problem i don't think so yeah i mean really that's just a tiny little piece of the puzzle if anything but you know what have you heard out there is anybody even offering some realistic solutions out there or there is one
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group fix you see that offered maybe you can start just paying five percent of your salary forever skip the tuition part and then from there on now you pay five percent of your salary but that means of course i guess you could say those that make a little more money by paying more than the nose below them what else. well you know chris cox you know i don't know if i pronouncing that right but here's a look who proposed a fix you see it is a really interesting proposal and i think probably. the most unique. so you should see those problems and i think that is overly simplistic because basically what he would do is he would have people contribute five percent of their salaries as you mention so they're all mater but at the same time people who make less than thirty thousand dollars would need to contribute anything to their education and then there is also a cat i believe it's a ten thousand dollars cap if you're making a two hundred thousand dollars salary a year and i'm curious as to whether or not this is something that's in force
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a little i know that chris offered more bureaucracy of the government in order to enforce this we really want more bureaucracy where are we going to get the funding to pay for these government employees is it really a great idea it just seems overly simplistic but i love that people are really thinking about revolutionary ideas to deal with this issue but i think the number one step is to tax the wealthy their fair share of taxes so when it comes to capital gains tax it's ridiculous that you know capital gains tax is so low compared to what the middle class when it comes to their federal taxes you have to look at me like you know i mean is that really going to solve the issue of how expensive tuition is because these are one of the you know this is one of the main questions to you have to think about it is what are the schools spending all this money on right some private schools out there to issue his fifty thousand dollars a year public universities obviously a lot cheaper but we pay a lot for education in this country and so where does all that money go you know
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there's also there are a lot of federal grants out there there is a lot of government money coming in. well one of the big problems is a lot of the funding goes toward teachers a people who work within these universities you know support staff things like that but i do agree that the universities waste a little too much money on but at the same time you know we weren't having these discussions about tuition until after we realized that bush had passed these tax cuts that the wealthy were not getting packed tax their fair share of taxes all of a sudden university start to get defunded and they have to make up those costs and how do they close the budget gap the first thing they do is increase tuition on the students so it's a little bit of a mixed bag and there are so many different factors that play a role in this that's why it's important to really delve into the details and look at real solutions to this problem but definitely tax revenue and you know the decrease tax revenue that we've had over the past few years is a huge factor in this problem so that's something that could definitely be looked
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at to solve this issue now and certainly i guess just only looking at interest rates might be a little bit of a start but by no means a solution i've got to wrap it up ana thanks so much for joining us tonight thanks alina. just ahead of the show you said it i read it and while the focus is on the nuclear tit for tat between pakistan and india what exactly does the u.s. have its eye on tony shaffer joins us after the break.


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